In this post I thought I would talk a little about persistent vegetative state (PVS) and minimally conscious state (MCS). Though this topic may not concern many of you, I feel it should be discussed as the question of PVS is raised frequently by family members of patients who are in coma.

Doctor is he brain dead? Would he wake up? If yes when? Is he going to be a “vegetable” for the rest of his life?

So what is PVS and how does it differ from brain death. I shall try to make this simple and explain with the aid of a crude example. Let us assume a person suffers major head trauma in a motor vehicle accident. He is brought to the hospital and CT scan shows extensive bleeding in the brain. He is in the intensive care unit on a mechanical ventilator while his blood pressure is been supported with the help of medications (we call such medications vasopressors). Now a neurologist is called to see him regarding prognosis. On examining him the neurologist notices that his pupils are dilated and fixed (do not react to light) and the rest of his brain stem reflexes are also not elicitable (please see my previous post on brain death). An EEG is ordered to confirm the diagnosis of brain death. The EEG shows no cortical (brain) activity above 2 microvolts (meaning it is essentially a flat line) and is thus consistent with electrocerebral inactivity (ECI). SUCH A PERSON IS BRAIN DEAD AND CAN THUS BE REMOVED FROM THE VENTILATOR (OF COURSE WE TAKE THE FAMILY’S WISHES INTO CONSIDERATION). BUT FOR TECHNICAL PURPOSES HE IS DEAD. Remember what I said earlier one cannot die twice, once when the brain stops and once when the heart stops.

Now lets take the second scenario. The neurologist examines the patient and notices that he does not respond to verbal commands, does not respond to a painful stimuli such as a pinch but the brain stem reflexes are intact. His pupils react to light, he gags when the back of his throat is touched, he takes a gasp on his own when he is temporarily disconnected from the ventilator. THE NEUROLOGIST RIGHLY SAYS” PATIENT IS NOT BRAIN DEAD BUT HIS PROGNOSIS FOR RECOVERY IS GUARDED“. Time goes by say about a week. The patient is now still in the intensive care unit but at times responds when he is stimulated, does not open his eyes or talk but moves his arm if he is pinched. More time goes by say about 2 weeks. The patient is now opening his eyes. He now has a tracheostomy and slowly is been weaned off the ventilator. He is still not able to talk and does not interact with any of his nursing staff or his family. More time goes by, the patient has been weaned off the ventilator. He is now out of the intensive care unit and is transferred to the hospital floor. A neurologist’s opinion is asked for as “the patient does not respond”. The neurologist examines the same patient whom he had seen in the aftermath of the trauma. 10 weeks have gone by since the injury. The neurologist finds that the patient open his eyes spontaneously, at times even yawns, he is told by the family at bedside that the patient has sleep wake cycles (meaning he sleeps at night and then wakes up after some time just like any other “normal” person).  As the patient’s mother walks into the patient’s room, the neurologist notices that the patient tracks her with his eyes for a short time when she enters. But there is no meaningful interaction of the patient with his environment. It is as if the patient is there but not there. He does not make purposeful eye-contact with anyone. There is nothing in his actions to suggest that he is truly responding to those around him or interacting with them. The tracking movements of the eyes are semipurposeful and so is the yawning behavior–more like a reflex if not anything else.

A person like the one above may be labelled as one who is heading into the persistent vegetative state (PVS) category. You can imagine the delimma for the family members if you tell them that though the patient may remain “alive” for years, he shall never have any meaningful neurological interaction and hence it is better to let him go. “BUT DOCTOR HE IS ALIVE, HE YAWNED TODAY, HE LOOKED AT ME WHEN I WALKED INTO HIS ROOM”: they will say.

Patients who are truly in the PVS shall never recover any meaningful neurological interaction with the environment–this is by defination. But as is true in medicine, everything is not black and white. there are shades of grey. Patients who meet the criteria for PVS but then who later on start showing “some” recovery. Some purposeful goal directed behavior starts emerging. So a new category of minimally conscious state has not come into the literature. There have been some studies done to show that the brains of these patients do actually respond and they are far from a PVS. A lot of research is now been carried out to determine how we can benefit these patients.

If the right procedure is followed and the neurological examination and relevant investigations are carried out and repeated if required after an interval of time, most of these patients can be rightly categorised into the brain dead, PVS or MCS category thus avoiding confusion and anguish to the family members.

Nitin Sethi, MD



72 Responses to “Persistent vegetative state and minimally conscious state”  

  1. 1 Anna

    Thank you for the information.
    I suggest you use a spell checker.

  2. 2 braindiseases

    Thank you for writing in Anna. I apologize for the spelling errors. Most of the posts are written on the run inbetween patients or after a day’s work. At times I do not pay close attention to the spellings or the grammer. I plan to be more careful in the future.
    Personal Regards,
    Nitin Sethi, MD

  3. 3 KJ

    Thank you for the post. It describes my Dad’s situation since his MVA almost exactly. That is, up until about 4 weeks ago. It was then that he started to change. With inconsistency, he began to repeat words; write letters and words when asked to; comb his hair, brush his teeth; hold up the same number of fingers as I was, and follow all basic commands given to him without delay. The doctors at the hospital haven’t changed their diagnosis from MCS and have written him off to a certain extent, but I feel like he is emerging beyond MCS. Any information would be much appreciated. Thank you.

  4. 4 braindiseases

    Dear KJ,
    thank you for writing in. From what you have said, it indeed seems that your father is moving beyond a MCS and it making progress. I am especially encouraged by the fact that he is able to follow all basic commands without delay. As you can understand, terms like PVS and MCS (especially MCS) are subjective to an extent and a patient may progress or change as time goes on. Doctors may give a guarded prognosis and not change their assessment till they are certain that the patient is indeed showing improvement.
    I wish your father the very best. Please do keep me posted about his condition.
    Personal Regards,
    Nitin Sethi, MD

  5. my dad was involved 4 months ago in a motorcycle accident. Your second scenario describes exactly the process dad went through at the trauma unit, then at the hospital, now at a longterm care facility and where he continues to be diagnosed as persistent vegitative state. This is agonizing to the family and devastating to me. You mentioned at the end of that paragraph to let him go. These words are like a cutting knife thru my heart, and unberable to comprehend. How am i able to let him go, if he is not dead, he is breathing on his own, and all his organs are functioning perfect. Its crazy… its so hard.. i pray for strength.. please help. thanks for reading these crying words. Take care God bless

  6. 6 braindiseases

    Dear Janneth,
    I thank you for sharing what you have being going through with me. I can only imagine the pain and suffering you and your family are passing through.
    I pray to God to give you strength and peace. We may be strangers to each other but I stand beside you in these difficult times.
    Yours Sincerely,
    Nitin Sethi, MD

  7. 7 Hannah Loewen

    Does the amount of time that it takes to move from coma to PVS to MCS make a difference in prognosis? A good family friend was given a poor prognosis based on an EEG done in the first 24 hours (after CPR), but after 60 hours he is opening his eyes, trying to sit up and pull out tubes, and (twice) smiling or crying in response to comments. Does that put him in the MCS state now, or not necessarily yet? And does it matter that he has progressed so quickly after the event, or does that really not help predict whether he’ll return to normal consciousness? Thank you.

  8. 8 braindiseases

    Dear Hannah,
    thank you for writing in. It is always difficult to prognosticate about the neurological outcome of a patient immediately or soon after the acute insult.The reason for this is that neurological signs frequently fluctuate early in the disease course. Studies like EEG may also change depending upon when in the disease course the test was carried out.
    The fact that your friend has made much recovery and is now opening his eyes and trying to sit up surely is a good sign.
    Unfortunately it is extremely tough for me to say what state (MCS or something better) he is in.
    That has to be determined by a doctor at the bedside after a good neurological examination and taking studies like EEG and MRI into consideration.
    Personal Regards,
    Nitin Sethi, MD

  9. 9 Gina

    I am doing a essay for my bio class and i am intrested in finding out how the brain affects PVS?

  10. 10 braindiseases

    Dear Gina,
    thank you for writing in. I did not quite understand your question. There are many resources on the internet where you can get good information about persistent vegetative state. If you need any specific information, I shall be more than happy to provide it.
    Personal Regards,
    Nitin Sethi, MD

  11. 11 Anwer Kamal Pasha

    I am father of a patient Jawad Pasha who is 26 years old now.He was injured in 2004 in perhaps a road accident with a very severe brain injury.He was declared a PVS but now he has improved,slowly but visible.We understand that he is in Fully Conscious State now but still no motor fuction. Smiles ,laughs ,and responds by blinking eyes.Now started to make voices and some time try to move his fingers, hands,arms and a leg.Still feeded by tube but this year his recovery is little better than before,What we can do now ? Very little rehab facilities are available here at Pakistan but I think metter of improvement after brain injury is actually is peraps not a medical issue.It is a metter of rehab and depends on family ,friends and care givers.

  12. 12 braindiseases

    Dear Mr. Pasha,
    thank you for writing in. You are right when you say rehab does play a big role in recovery after traumatic brain injury. The love and support of family, friends and care-givers is essential as patients sometimes make a frustatingly slow recovery.
    I wish your son my very best. May God be with you and your family in these difficult times.
    Personal Regards,
    Nitin Sethi, MD

  13. 13 amri aifa

    i’m a father of patient 8 years old , he had closed TBI from acar accedent since 45 days ,there are no Fractures in his body , he started opening his eyes after 16 dayes from the injury ..Chewing always.. he is tracking objects sometimes , watch a tv (when we move the tv he track it by his eyes) he is very sensitive to any sounds and beeing freak (he is like afraid by moving his body rapidly when somebody touching him suddenly) ,showing some facial muscles movement, arm movement as reflix always , feeling pain and moving his nick strongly when nurses inserting the tube in his nose … not obey to commands .. no talking … his general health is good ..
    what can i expect ?
    thanks for your opinion and your help (and i’m very sorry about my weak language)

    • 14 braindiseases

      Thank you for writing in. I am sorry to hear about your son. It is indeed difficult to prognosticate about a patient’s recovery after closed traumatic brain injury. This is even more true in the case of children as a child’s brain does have a remarkable capacity to heal.
      We usually do not prognosticate or make a diagnosis of persistent vegetative state till about 4 weeks have passed since the index event. This time interval at times varies depending upon the type of head injury–traumatic brain injury versus anoxic (lack of oxygen to the brain) brain injury. It seems your son is having somato-sensory myoclonus (patients have sudden shock like movements such as body and arm jerks if they are stimulated, as by a sudden touch or a loud sound).
      Somato-sensory myoclonus is a non-specific sign of diffuse brain injury/ irritability. At times the myoclonus responds to sedative drugs/ anti-seizure medications. As for your question about what can you expect. That is indeed hard for me to answer since I have not examined your son. As doctors we usually are able to prognosticate the family after taking into account various test results such as MRI brain and EEG study (to look at the brain waves).
      I wish your son my very best. Please feel free to contact me again if you have any further questions.

      Personal Regards,
      Nitin Sethi, MD

  14. 15 anwerpasha52

    Thank you Nitin Sethi, MD
    I need to ask a Question.We are looking many changes time to time and all the time these are resulted to a seizure.Can Seizure/Fits be helpful for a PVS ? My son is recovering slowly but visible.Please search about Jawad Pasha.

  15. 16 braindiseases

    Dear Jawad Pasha,
    I am happy to learn that your son continues to make a slow recovery. Seizures may be a common occurence in a patient in persistent vegetative state depending upon the etiology of the persistent vegetative state. Patients who are in PVS due to trauma or anoxic (lack of oxygen) injury to the brain frequently have seizures.
    Seizures should be aggressively treated and controlled and thankfully we now have many medications that can achieve this goal.

    Personal Regards,
    Nitin Sethi, MD

  16. 17 Anwer Kamal Pasha

    Thanx again Sir,
    Actually i do not agree to the idea of any medication for a PVS by nrurologests how ever other health requirments may be treated.Simply when no result there should be no medication.If it is for study purposes,patients or their caregivers must be informed.Same about their seziures/Fits.There are two types perhaps which we are looking in case of Jawad Pasha,One perhaps due to brain changes and seconds oerhaps due to his physical and pscycological problems and we are successfully experiencing to avoid secod type of fits by diverting his attention.I just want to share you an other wonderfull experience.Tonight and last time I braught him to barber shop for haircut and he sat just like normal at his chair during whole hair cut.I am now in 5th year of this grace of god and have to tell much more but I am not good in English. (Do you understand Hindi/Urdu?)

    • 18 braindiseases

      Dear Mr. Pasha,
      God is indeed kind and I am happy that you experienced this personal joyful moment when your son had his haircut. I understand Urdu and speak Hindi fluently. Please feel free to write in again, it is always good to hear from you and your wife.

      Personal Regards,
      Nitin Sethi, MD

  17. 19 Anwer Kamal Pasha

    I am really thankfull to you on behalf of all brain injured people for your support to them.It is a great work and although a great spending by western governments actually nothing could be done for these helpless people.I have to ask you that are there possibillity of regaining motor function. Is there any medical history of this? my mail address is pashaanw52@gmail.com.

  18. 20 braindiseases

    Dear Mr. Pasha,
    thank you for your kind words of encouragement. There is trememdous research going on in the field of disorders of decreased consciousness such as persistent vegetative state (PVS) and minimally conscious state (MCS). Neurostimulation devices such as deep brain stimulation (DBS) are being used to see if we can help these patients regain motor and cognitive function back.

    I only have hope to offer you and others in similar situation. As our understanding of the brain increases further, we may be able to help these patients regain useful function.

    Personal Regards,
    Nitin Sethi, MD

  19. 21 Anwer Kamal Pasha

    Dear sir,Please give some time to read about us at http://www.paklinks.com about “Pakistan a brain injury Persistent vegetative state patients Jawad Pasha” I also want to discuss two ideas. Can we try some sort of electric shocks instead of DBS. I am sure that if with the help rehab specialist help and guide us and if we get some machines like a walker, arm mover and a sit-stand machine , we can easily go to get motor function by making movement a habbit and easy with very low signals which are always present there.

    • 22 braindiseases

      Thank you. I shall look at the site you mention. I would not advise electric shocks. They can have serious complications and may provoke a seizure. Neurostimulation with DBS is at this moment in the research stage here in the United States with some studies hinting at benefits in patients in minimally conscious states (MCS). Intensive rehab is always helpful if done under supervision and assistive devices like walkers and mechanical wheelchairs can aid mobility.
      Again my very best to you and your son.

      Personal Regards,
      Nitin Sethi, MD

  20. 23 Anwer Kamal Pasha

    I am sorry.I don’t want to be take your time to,much but now I understand that you know about very little facilities available here in subcontinent about brain injury.I am writing to many during last one year but could not get any support or gauidance.Can you tell me that are there some PVS improving like Jawad Pasha and if there are some . How much they improved/recovered ? I have read about some cases but no one of them was gradually improved.

    • 24 braindiseases

      Dear Mr. Pasha,
      I do know there are some very good facilities (hospitals and rehab centers) which specialize in the care of patients like your son in India (especially in New Delhi). The answer to your second question is difficult for me to answer. The prognosis of patients who are in persistent vegetative states and/or minimal conscious states is guarded and can only be made by a doctor with some degree of certainty after a thorough neurological examination and after reviewing the results of various tests such as brain imaging (MRI brain), EEG and evoked potentials.

      Personal Regards,
      Nitin Sethi, MD

  21. 25 Anwer Kamal Pasha

    Thank you very much. I shall like to go to New Delhi,That is very easy and cheap for me.Perhaps you did not seen the site yet.I shall love to get a refference/advise from you to a hopital there.Please must see Jawad Pasha on face book.

  22. 26 braindiseases

    Dear Mr. Pasha,
    sure there are many good centers in New Delhi and I shall be happy to give you some references. The All India Institute of Medical Sciences is a big state run hospital. Busy yet offers all the necessary facilities. It is hard to get in there as the outpatient clinics are always busy. My advise to you would be to have some relative or friend visit the center first with the medical records of your son. There depending upon what the doctors feel, you should proceed further. That way your trip there can be well coordinated.
    First have someone visit the hospital or look around in the region for a facility/ hospital specializing in neurology care. You can then communicate with them via email or telephone. That shall help determine if they can indeed help your son and only them would I take him there.
    I shall look up Jawad on face book. I personally never opened a face book account so I am not certain if I shall be able to see his profile. I hope all is good with your family.

    Personal Regards,
    Nitin Sethi, MD

  23. 27 Anwer Kamal Pasha

    Thank You Very much. I feel very comfortable with you, I repeat request to you to must read about us at http://www.paklinks.com about “Pakistan a brain injury Persistent vegetative state patients Jawad Pasha” and more that Jawad is really improving and study about him could help others.

  24. 28 braindiseases

    I certainly shall read about Jawad. I wish him my very best.

    Personal Regards,
    Nitin Sethi, MD

  25. 29 Anwer Kamal Pasha

    Now I want to say more about his recovery.This winter no cough and no fever (First winter).A little cough some time due to water in mouth ( Balgham) but that is not a problem.We have perhaps seen 2 type of Seizures/Fits .One is perhaps due to electric changes in brain. We are seeing it after every 6 to 8 months, Its syptem starts 2,3 days before attavk. He feels perhaps some pain and starts water from mouth (Jhag). Its timing was 30 to 40 minutes but last year January this was more than 2 hours rill he became senceless in result of medication at hospital.(Changes in right and left side of body was noted). Other type of seizure we were facing was perhaps called sudo. We was facing it often but now we control that by diverting his attention to some other side as when we feel it is starting. There may be reasons pain,tention,feelings or complaints. He is quite healthy but now we are in need of exercise machines for him.
    Will you like to know more. Please ask specific questions.It will help us.

    • 30 braindiseases

      Thank you for keeping me informed about his progress. Good pulmonary toilet is very important as usually it is infections like pneumonia, urinary tract infections (due to an indwelling catheter) and pressure sores that take patients like Jawad down. Hence make sure he continues to get good respiratory therapy along with ongoing physical therapy. Does he follow commands consistently? Does he make eye-contact? Does he have bladder and bowel control?
      Personal Regards,
      Nitin Sethi, MD

  26. 31 Anwer Kamal Pasha

    Thank you. Answer is no for all. Urine and bowl are normal but we can not say about control as he says nothing but we feel he tries to tell when he passes urine.We normally use bottle for urine exept going out or exercise.Eye contact is there but not when asked but moves thumbs of both hands and a foot when asked,this is also this year devlopement.He does not blink eyes when an artical is braught near to his eyes,abnormal attitude, but otherwise he treats with everyone according to his status, HAPPY TO HEAR JOKES, happy to see dancing,Happy to go out and meet people.”He is a perfect man” Hope you understand.
    Personal Regards, Best wishes

    • 32 braindiseases

      I am happy to hear about Jawad’s progress.

      Personal Regards,
      Nitin Sethi, MD

  27. 33 sarah church

    the father of my children got something caught round his neck 5 months ago , he was fit and healthy 39 year old . Is is currently at Putney rehibilitation unit in England for a 3 month assessment , we were told that he was first in VS but have recently been told hes in MCS , he yawns coughs and just recently he seems to actually look into my eyes , his eyes have imerged from a hazy stare to sparkling eyes that look as tho he is seeing , he seems to jerk alot when he hears familiar voices and he blinks hard as if he is trying to communicate , he has a very bad sacrum pressure sore which has limited his assesment as he cant sit in a wheelchair . Will he ever be able to communicate with his boys aged 7 and 9 ? we are having a meeting with the doctors next week to discuss what they have found during the assessment , what things should i be asking the doctors ? thanks

    • 34 braindiseases

      Dear Sarah,
      thyank you for writing in. I am sorry to hear about your husband. It can at times be tough to distinguish whether someone is in a persistent vegetative state versus minimally conscious state. Thus it is very hard for doctors to prognosticate about the long term neurological outcome. I think the meeting with his doctors shall prove to be very informative. You should enquire whether they feel he has any meaningful interaction with his environment. Does he really interact or what you see are just reflex movements (example does he just reflexely blink or do they feel he actually tries to communicate). How much is the structural damage to the brain itself? What does a recent EEG show?
      Nowdays we do have some additional tests (special scans) which can aid in this differentiation. Mostly though they have been used in the research setting. There have been recent reports of some patients who were in a MCS “improving” after undergoing neurostimulation (deep brain stimulation).
      Feel free to write in again. I wish you my very best.

      Personal Regards,
      Nitin Sethi, MD

  28. 35 Hayley H

    Hi Sarah,

    My brother was attacked just over 4 weeks ago and sustained severe head injuries. He seems to be fairly similar to your husband at the moment. He is trying to sit up, actually seems to focus on us and is trying to make some noises. He is also yawning and looked as though he was crying last night. He is in hospital but has been referred to Putney too, so we are hoping he will be transferred there soon. How have you found Putney? I have heard its a great place for rehabilitation.
    I really hope your husband and my brother recover well.

    • 36 braindiseases

      Thank you for writing in. I wish your brother a speedy recovery. Hopefully Sarah shall get back to you soon.

      Personal Regards,
      Nitin Sethi, MD

  29. 37 Anwer Kamal Pasha

    Sir, Hope you have read about Jawad Pasha,What term can be used for him now ? As he is not a PVS or MCS now. I have come to know about another Persistent Vegetative State in Pakistan. His name is Muhammad Hussain. He is just 16 years old. He is located at somewhere in Pasheen near Quetta Pakistan. PVS is the greatest health problem. If someone can do something for him,

    • 38 braindiseases

      Dear Mr. Pasha,
      I did read about your son. Not certain what label I would attach to his neurological condition as I have not examined him. I wish him continued and speedy recovery.

      Personal Regards,
      Nitin Sethi, MD

  30. 39 Hayley H

    Dear Dr Sethi,

    Please can you offer some advice on what we are experiencing with my brother. Its now been 7 weeks and he has had some good days, where he seemed to focus on us and move more purposefully.Still there is no speech, but some groans. However, he is being sedated at times, which we were not happy about (lorazepam) and so my father sat with him last night. He keeps rubbing his head and pulling his hair out, by doing the same robotic movemement with his right arm. When we try to stop him from doing this, or put pillows in his way he gets more agitated and stressed. My dad said that he was doing this for 10 hours and got no sleep. We feel that he seemed to be much better when he was having no sedatives (over a 4 day period). Could this be some sort of withdrawal symptom from not having the drug, or is this just a response to his head injury? The nurses seem to think that sedating him is the best thing.

  31. 40 braindiseases

    Dear Hayley,
    good to hear from you again. I am not sure how to advise you since I have not seen your brother. Patients who have suffered traumatic brain injury can at times have paradoxical reaction to CNS sedatives (meaning that usually sedatives calm someone down, in these patients they may cause paradoxical excitability and agitation).
    My personal experience with these patients has been that if one makes a diligent search for causes of agitation, one can zone in to the offending agent (rule out the usual stuff–is he is in pain? does he have fever or signs of infection and so forth).
    Fell free to write in again.

    Personal Regards,
    Nitin Sethi, MD

  32. 41 Hayley H

    Thank you Dr Sethi,
    he seems to have calmed down a little now and is not rubbing his head as much. The Doctors have told us he is not in pain, he has had a UTI which is obviously painful as he grimaces when he passes urine into the catheter.
    His eyes were open most of the day yesterday although not always focussing. He has so much movement in his legs and is always lifting them up and moving them around. Its just going to be a long journey, but we have been told that once he gets into the Neuro-Rehab centre, he will come on a lot.
    He has a good swallowing action and I think the dietician was pleased with this and mentioned about food( he is being fed by his peg a the moment)
    I like to think he listens to me, when I talk to him, even though he is not really responding to commands yet. We are just all praying for a miracle and keeping positive.

    • 42 braindiseases

      Dear Hayley,
      good to hear from you again and glad they figured that out. It has been my experience that when patients like these are restless one must make a diligent search for infection. I wish him my very best.

      Personal Regards,
      Nitin Sethi, MD

  33. 43 Anwer Kamal Pasha

    Dear Dr Sethi, Is there any possibility of any on line examinarion of a patient. I am not asking for Jawad Pasha. I am intrested for said Muhammad Hussain of Pasheen , Quetta ( Pakistan). I can arrange video conferrence with some doctor there.He is a cery deserving case of an area where no facility is available. I am trying my best and a very hopeful results are expected, I have sent there one paramedical who has worked with my son for years and he told that he seems to be responding.I talked with the patient many times and his family is little happy that they feel that he is responding.

    • 44 braindiseases

      Dear Mr. Pasha,
      it is always good to hear from you. I shall be happy to help in any way if an online examination is made feasible. I trust that your son is continuing to make a steady progress.

      Personal Regards,
      Nitin Sethi, MD

  34. 45 Anwer Kamal Pasha

    Dear Dr Sethi, Is there any possibility of any on line examinarion of a patient. I am not asking for Jawad Pasha. I am intrested for said Muhammad Hussain of Pasheen , Quetta ( Pakistan). I can arrange video conferrence with some doctor there.He is a very deserving case of an area where no facility is available. I am trying my best and a very hopeful results are expected, I have sent there one paramedical who has worked with my son for years and he told that he seems to be responding.I talked with the patient many times and his family is little happy that they feel that he is responding.

  35. 46 Chanetia Proctor

    My mom is currently in a MCS after suffering from hypoxia. The hospital can’t tell us how long she was without oxygen. She was in a coma for 9days. She moves her left arm on command, tracks people with her eyes, and even tries to sit up. She lifts her head and turns it from side to side and she’s even cried. She yawns but still seems to have difficulty swallowing. They’ve recently started her on an Ambien treatment. Is she really making progress or is this just wishful thinking on our part?

    • 47 braindiseases

      Dear Chanetia,
      I am sorry to hear about your mother. It is difficult for me to prognosticate about her condition since I have not examined her. There were a couple of case reports where in Ambien helped patients in various altered states of consciousness. My personal experience with this drug has been disappointing though.
      I wish your mother my very best. Please feel free to write in again.

      Personal Regards,
      Nitin Sethi, MD

  36. 48 Anwer Kamal Pasha

    Dear Dr Sethi.
    Thank you very much . You are a real nice person spending your time for humanity.God bless you. Jawad Pasha is going wonderful. The other PVS Muhammad Hussin is real deserving case.He is feeded by a nosal tube from last nine months.The family is not illitrate but they came to know the word of physiotherapy first time by me after eight miths of the accident.The boy is responding.They have an adge that he belongs to a tradional Pathan family with 54 persons living in one house in a village near Pasheen away from Quetta,Pakistan.His bed sore is now curing. I dont know about his injury but now I believe that the God makes the ways. Please advise me about Muhammad Hussain.

    • 49 braindiseases

      Dear Mr. Pasha,
      my advise is limited since I have not seen him but simple things go a long way. Make sure his bed sores are treated. He should be turned frequently to avoid further bed sores and the skin should be kept clean and dry to avoid breakdown. Care of the bladder and bowel is alo very important. This prevents urinary tract infection and regular bowel movement prevents constipation.

      Personal Regards,
      Nitin Sethi, MD

  37. 50 Anwer Kamal Pasha

    Dear Dr Sethi ;
    Thanks for your time and advise.
    Jawad is going wonderful.He is with a very good health and that is a very special blessing of God. Yong man Muhammad Hussain Khan Kakar is now sure responding. Today one of his family told me that he moved his one finger many times when I was talking with him on cell phone. It has happened before and it only happened when I talk with him.His family is very happy and you better know the condition of our villages located away from cities. I have passed them your advices and they are thankful to you.

    • 51 braindiseases

      You are very welcome Mr. Pasha. Hope he continues to make a steady improvement.

      Personal Regards,
      Nitin Sethi, MD

  38. 52 Anwer Kamal Pasha

    Dear Dr Nitin Sethi.
    I have passed all your advises to the family of
    Muhammad Hussain Khan Kakar and by grace of god a miracle is happening. The boy is improving and responding with a fast speed. Today they told me that he acted on my phonic asking as i asked him to blink eyes,rise his hand and move. He blinked eyes, rose his hand and moved his head. Another very important success that acting on my advise on controlling his fits and they are also successful like us. Epilopsy or fits of PVS or MCS is in my idea is mostly reaction of any pain,need or pscyclogical so we are using the technic of diverting the attention of the patient to somewhere else and meanwhile trying to know the reason like feeling cold or hot,hunger or thirst and others. Jawad Pasha is now a days with some throat infection problem and we hope for some early recovery. Hope one day you shall have some time to talk with us and family of Muhammad Hussain because it is very easy for us due to language. Thanking again for your kind attention.

    • 53 braindiseases

      You are very welcome Mr. Pasha. Hope Jawad is doing well. I do speak Hindi fluently. I can understand Urdu well but afraid cannot speak it so well though. In any case I feel communication shall not be a problem. May I commend you on your English. I know it is not your primary language but you do get your point across well.

      Personal Regards,
      Nitin Sethi, MD

  39. 54 braindiseases

    Thank you for the link Mr. Pasha.

    Personal Regards,
    Nitin Sethi, MD

  40. 55 Anwer Kamal Pasha

    I have sent you this link many days before and not like this, I am surprised. Jawad Pasha is going very well and he is improving. I am sure that he is among best one health wise in all MCS and PVS.My cell no is +923218550951 and Muhammad Hussain’s father’s no is +923013765130. I have to tell you a view. When a person goes in coma for more than 3 days,his care givers or peramedical staff is told that his side should be changed after 2=3 hours , It is correct but a little movement of arms and legs is necessary after every 15 minutes.I have to tell you another intresting event. I daily talk to Muhammad Hussain on cell and he is reported responding some what. Day before yesterday his sister told me that he was so exited that he started Fits and she tried to divert his attention but failed than she sligtly slapped him twice and than he stopped. We are now finding low cast but affective ways to meet this challenge for others specially for the people of countries like our. I am taking your much time . Injury of Jawad Pasha was very severe and doctors at Pakistan and Singapore told me that his survival is almost a miracle and no one was hopefull about his recovery. I don’t know what will be the result but I am sure our effort will be helpfull for others. Thanks again for your time and attention.

  41. 57 Anwer Kamal Pasha

    Thanx a lot,From last few days we are doing a new type of exercise. I and one Iftekhar (His friendly attendent) bring Jawad un standing position as his hands are on our shoulders. Then we turns him many times like’Thumka’ clock wise and anti clock wise.Than we bend him a little right ,left ,front and back and than we try to a sit stand exercise. This has given a very good effect on him.

  42. 58 braindiseases

    Dear Mr. Pasha,
    it is good to hear from you again. Getting Jawad out of bed, turing him frequently in bed and at times assisting him out of the wheelchair is always a good idea. This shall also go a long way in preventing pressure sores. Just be careful as you go about this as he remains at high risk for falls.

    Personal Regards,
    Nitin Sethi, MD

  43. 59 Anwer Kamal Pasha

    Thank you Doctor Sahib.
    pressure sores were never a problem for Jawad Pasha but My five year round the clock experience may be some helpful to others.My first advice for eveyone is this that put yourself on place of a persistent vegetative state (PVS) or a minimally conscious state (MCS). You must suppose that he is conscious and than think what you need if you are on his place.PVS or MCS people should must be very afraid due to their disability,they should must be knowing that people who love him or her are arround and they are taking care of them.When a person goes in coma for more than 3 days,his care givers or peramedical staff is told that his side should be changed after 2-3 hours , It is correct but a little movement of arms and legs is necessary after every 15-20 minutes to maintain the blood circulation in his body even he or she is slept.
    I am looking for your view on this all. Thanx again.

  44. 60 braindiseases

    Dear Mr. Pasha,
    you do raise a valid point. Patients who are bed bound need frequent change in posture to present bed sores (decubitus ulcers). In the hospital setting this is usually carried out every 2 hours or so, the primary reason is shortage of personnel. Nurses are frequently taking care of multiple critically ill patients at the same time each with pressing needs. I usually request the family at the bedside to help out. They can do an excellent job in changing the position of the patient in bed frequently as also passively moving the arms and legs to avoid deep venous thrombosis.

    Personal Regards,
    Nitin Sethi, MD

  45. 61 Anwer Kamal Pasha

    Thank you Dr Sethi.
    I think this has become a proper forum to discuss the issues related to persistent vegetative state (PVS) or minimally conscious state (MCS).
    An other issue is related to rehablitation of above said patients. In my view the abovesaid conditions are due to loss of motor function. Consciousness is not the basic thing. It takes perhaps years to the patient to show his consciousness but meanwhile he loses his all skills. I give you example. We started feeding by mouth to Jaead Pasha after about six months of his accident and within six months we reached at a point of one glass of water and a few biscuits but when we braught him to Singapore , Doctors after conducting different tests showed us that the food is going to his breathing portion.(sorry for my poor English)So they stopped us to feed by mouth and then he lost his habit of eating and it is very difficult to feed him by mouth.
    I think that a little practice of different movements may be suggested for the patients to keep their skills intact. It may be looking useless but it can be helpful.

    • 62 braindiseases

      Dear Mr. Pasha,
      in disorders of consciousness such as PVS and MCS, consciousness is an important part of the whole equation. Recent research though has shown that these patients actually are consciousness they just cannot access their memory centers/ speech centers and so forth. Let me try to explain this better. Suppose a neural command has to go from point A to point B. To reach point B though it has to go via point C. Now if point C is damaged (due to brain injury/ hypoxia etc), even though Point A and Point B might be intact, the command cannot reach its final destination.
      That is what we feel happens in some patients with MCS and PVS, they are kind of there but locked out from assessing their centers of cognition, speech and motor memory.

      Personal Regards,
      Nitin Sethi, MD

  46. 63 Anwer Kamal Pasha

    I am always thankful for your kind attention,If you feel sometime disturbing you may tell me. I want to tell you some more about Muhammad Hussain. He is too away from any city in a small unknown village. Will you believe that they have not seen a physiotherapist yet. They now have a tilting table for his standing and a wheel chair and at home some exercise told to them by me and a paremedical attendent of Jawad Pasha. Good news is this that the boy is responding and even some time obeying some command.The family now know you and is thankfull to you. The other great success is control of his fits/seizure on a very simple way as I told you befote.Jawad Pasha is a mature and educated man so he controls himself but Muhammad Hussain is too young so he often faces fits when he is emotional or in some trouble. Hope you will suggest to caregivers to try this method if there patient have problem of this sudo type seizure to study this idea.

    • 64 braindiseases

      Dear Mr. Pasha,
      as always thank you for writing in and informing me about the steady progress of your son and of Mr. Hussain too. Seizures are common in patients with altered states of consciousness. At times they may be subtle and are not accompanied by dramatic motor manifestations (meaning that the body does not shake but the brain is still having seizures). We call such seizures as sub-clinical seizures or electrographic seizures (they can be detected with the help of an EEG). The trick though lies in differentiating seizures from other behavioral manifestations which may mimic seizures clinically. As you can imagine the treatment for the two differs, seizures warrant anti-seizure medications while behavioral manifestations may warrant other drugs such as sedatives.

      Personal Regards,
      Nitin Sethi, MD

  47. 65 Anwer Kamal Pasha

    Thanks again Dr Sethi.
    You are a qualified doctor and I knew nothing about medical. To day was a great day for me. There was some infection in Jawad Pasha’s left cheek and that was swallowed. He was in trouble but the thing which made me happy that he reacted every time when touched. This was first time in five years. There were many troubles like this in this perioud but he never reacted. He was also laughing mean while because that was only way to him to show his feelings. And just now I asked that should I say thanks from your side to Dr Sethi. He blinked his eyes many time to yes. So thank you .

    • Dear Mr. Pasha,
      your spirit and desire to help your son and others like him is very inspiring. As always I wish you and your family my very best.

      Personal Regards,
      Nitin Sethi, MD

  48. 67 Anwer Kamal Pasha

    I am always thank full to you. Jawad Pasha is improving and he is hopefull and Muhammad Hussain is also responding. I think our conversation and your gauidance may be helpfull for many others.
    As I think matter of PVS and MCS is created due to latest medical facilities otherwise in old days it was like survival of the fittest. Only those patients could only survived who have less brain injury or strong enough to meet the injury.
    There is perhaps no medicine for brain healing . I have used myself homeopathic medicine many times and found them very effective but in this field that system is also not responding. There could be something in Hikmat,Ieowetheric or TCM. Have you listened about it?
    I also want to tell you about Dr Carina Eksteen of department of Physiotherapy,University of Pretoria S.A. She told us some exercises about neck holding and said that consciousness can be improved after neck holding. We found her instructions very usefull and looking for some way to get more instruction by her or any person who under stand.
    I am again thankfull for your kind attention.

    • Dear Mr. Pasha,
      I am personally not aware of any complimentary and alternative therapies which have been found to be useful in patients who are in MCS or PVS.

      Personal Regards,
      Nitin Sethi, MD

  49. 69 Anwer Kamal Pasha

    I am sorry but i forgot to ask you a thing. Can we try some drug or drink as an cxperiment. He is quite fit and healthy. There is no fear of fits now. And can we think of marrige if someone is ready?

    • Dear Mr. Pasha,
      I would not recommend drugs/ drinks as an experiment. Ideally you should review all aspects of Jawad’s care with a doctor who can then advise you accordingly.
      As regarding marriage that is a very personal decision. There are many social and ethical issues which shall have to be carefully considered.

      Personal Regards,
      Nitin Sethi, MD

  50. 71 Anwer Kamal Pasha

    Have to ad more .More tha 3 years ago a doctor at Singapore genral hospital have administered him some medicine and he was moving his legs and arms that time when asked but later he became more weak.At that time he very weak phsically and did not started smiling even. It was a loss to him at that time perhaps.


  1. 1 Blog Review: Braindisease’s Weblog « The Amazing World of Psychiatry: A Psychiatry Blog

Leave a Reply